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 INTERVIEW WITH ANDREAS PERUGINI:
OK,
let's stop beating about the bush and get to the questions.
- First
of all, your history. As a newly-emerged group, I'd like to know how
you came to be Croma.
The
group was founded under my initiative in Bolzano in '96 with Emanuele
Zottino. At the time we both played bass: me with a hardcore group
and he played in a rock group like Ligabue. I had already got
closer to minimalist music through the Zelig, the school of Cinema
and Television, where I was a student, and the cinema of Peter
Greenaway (with the soundtracks by Michael Nyman and Wim Mertens).
I had already tried to introduce minimalist piano sequences into
hardcore tracks with Simone Tumiati. It is strange to say so,
but hardcore and minimalist music have a lot in common! Emanuele
was at the music Conservatoire and it was him, contaminated by
me, who suggested that we form a minimalist music group.
Involving Simone went without saying, but we remained sceptical
about 'co-opting' classical music musicians: students from Conservatoires
are precisely that in Italy and these are certainly not places
of open-mindedness.
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Emanuele
turned more to his friendships than the artistic or professional
aspect regarding the initial formation of the group. Of that first
grouping, only Simone has remained, apart from me and Emanuele.
Since then, various people have joined in the following order: Francesco
Comunello, Laura Fulco (already a friend of mine from the faculty
of sociology at Trento University), Filippo De Gasperi (Laura's
boyfriend at the time), Sergio Pircali (excellent hardcore and jazz
drummer, and dedicated to recitative excursions) and finally, Anni
Micheli, the last of a series (a via crucis!) of sopranos.
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- Rock,
classical music, jazz, the various influences which each of you has
brought together into one form of music, minimalism, a synthesis of
'high-brow' music, let's say, and popular music. How did you decide
to play this complex kind of music?
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We
don't believe that there is a "high-brow" type of music in opposition
to "popular" music, we don't like to distinguish between "cultured"
music or, even worse, "serious" and "easy listening". They are
terms, which we hate. For us there is "artistic" music which is
produced from a communicative instance (concerts, sensations,
sentiments), and there is "commercial" music, which is produced
with the basic aim of selling to the largest numbers of consumers
possible.
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Even with our own preferences, we are well aware that works of
art exist in all musical genres. Personally, for example, I can't
define myself as a great appreciator of blues, but, when confronted
with the beauty of certain pieces, I can even be moved to tears.
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Minimalism has existed since the 60s, but in the 90s, in full
cross-over and full post-modernism, it acquires more meaning
in the sense that it manages to synthesise world music which
was originally very disparate: so-called "classical music" and
so-called "rock", with all the ambiguity that these terms force
upon us. Above all, minimalism with its tight ideology, with
its clear poetry, with its strong discipline, opposes itself
to the bedlam of the undefined, the ideological chaos and radical
relativism which characterised the 90s, such that even the new
millenium risked being "contaminated".
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If
anything, too much, becomes relative, such that everything becomes
permitted and the only thing which remains is the market! Hence,
oddly enough, minimalism, whilst remaining on the one hand a minority
phenomenon, marginal, can rise and represent the best spirit of
the 90s, (open-mindedness and the derived cultural contamination
from this), but, contemporarily, it can represent the principle
detractor.
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Minimalist music, hence, allows us to unite our very different
individual characteristics and to position ourselves in a non-passive
way, even critical vis-à-vis the artistic, cultural and musical
processes of our times.
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And
then, to respond to your question, fundamentally, we simply
find this music wonderful!
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La
nostra musica, più che al serialismo dell'ostica minimal music di
Raich o Riley, si rifà al minimalismo della "terza generazione",
alla melodia e alla ritmica di autori quali Wim Mertens e Michael
Nyman e, naturalmente a Philip Glass. Poiché riteniamo le parole
molto importanti, l'utilizzo della voce recitante si potrebbe paragonare
a quella dei Massimo Volume (definibili: minimalisti underground).
CCCP e Disciplinatha ci affascinano per l'immagine che hanno saputo
darsi (ideologia manifesta, ironia latente). Franco Battiato è forse,
in assoluto, il più eclettico musicista, un autore enorme del panorama
musicale di sempre: ha spaziato nella musica in lungo e in largo,
ha composto anche qualcosa di minimalista, ma forse gli è mancata
una vera sintesi. Ultimamente seguiamo i finlandesi Apocalyptica
che, con una formazione di 4 violoncelli, hanno iniziato facendo
cover dei Metallica. Poi ci sono tutti i gruppi hardcore-straight
edge. Come già accennato, straight edge e minimalismo hanno in comune
una certa disciplina, un certo rigore ideologico. Anche musicalmente,
nonostante giungano a risultati nettamente differenti, hanno la
comune caratteristica di lavorare sullo stesso materiale (una sequenza
di note, un giro) dando sempre adito a capovolgimenti compositivi.
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L'intellettualismo
dei Blu Vertigo, lo sperimentalismo di John Cage e le stupende peripezie
vocali di Meredith Monk ed ancora la drammatica brutalità del death
metal e del grindcore; il barocco di Bach e degli Iron Maiden (di
Transilvania abbiamo una cover in repertorio), la dodecafonia e
la techno, e poi i gruppi degli anni '80, Smiths, Cure, Simple Minds,
ed ancora i Beatles degli studio years, veri precursori del cross-over,
ma anche Fabrizio De André, il rap italiano, i canti popolari sardi…
sono solo alcuni dei musicisti o dei generi che apprezziamo e che
direttamente o indirettamente ci influenzano. Quello che più odiamo
è, invece, la farsa commerciale della new age (che come fenomeno
artistico non esiste); un tempo spacciata come musica da relax per
manager stressati ed ora, chiaramente, un'etichetta da vendere a
confusi consumatori in cerca di un'anima da comprare.
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- Which
are the artists you most refer to or, rather, which you admire most?
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Our
music, more than the serialism of the harsh minimal music of Reich
or Riley, refers back to the minimalism of the "third generation",
to the melodies and rhythms of composers such as Wim Mertens and
Michael Nyman and, naturally, Philip Glass. We also find that
the words are very important, the use of the recitative voice
could be compared with that of Massimo Volume (definable as: minimalist
underground). CCCP and Disciplinatha fascinate us for the image
they were able to create for themselves (manifest ideology, latent
irony). Franco Battiato is, maybe, the most ecclectic musician
in absolute terms, an enormously-talented artist of the musical
spectrum: he has moved through music far and widely, he has composed
something minimalist, but maybe he lacked a real synthesis. Ultimately
we follow the Finnish Apocalyptica who, with a grouping of 4 cellos,
started by doing cover tracks for Metallica. Then there are all
the hardcore-straight edge groups. As I already mentioned, straight
edge and minimalism have a certain discipline in common, a certain
ideological rigour. Even musically, despite the slightly different
results they achieve, they have the characteristic in common of
working on the same material (a sequence of notes, a turn) always
giving cause for provocation or overturning compositions.
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The
intellectualism of Blu Vertigo, the experimentalism of John Cage
and the stupendous vocal vicissitudes of Meredith Monk and the
drammatic brutality of death metal and of grindcore; the baroque
of Bach and of Iron Maiden (we have one cover track by Transilvania
in our repertory), the dodecaphony and techno, and then the groups
of the 80s, The Smiths, The Cure, Simple Minds and again the Beatles
of the studio years, true precursors of cross-over, but also Fabrizio
Andre'E, Italian rap, popular Sardinian folk songs, are just some
of the musicians or genres which we appreciate and, which, directly
or indirectly, influence us. What we hate most is, instead, the
commercial farce of new age (which doesn't exist as an artistic
phenomenon); in the past such music was divulged as relaxation
for stressed managers and today it is clearly a label to sell
to confused consumers looking to buy a soul.
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- Amongst
the producers, I see that the Province of Bolzano has made a contribution.
It seems strange to me and also very positive that an album can be produced
with a governmental body.
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It
is definitely positive, and also strange at the same time. In
Italy, the gerontocracy is in force everywhere, in this case,
often old encrusted people decide what is art and what is not
art, by objectively not making cultural means available. Thanks
to the efforts of Harlock and, above all, thanks to the appointment
of Antonio Lampis, a young person, competent and sensitive, also
the director of the cultural borough council, the institutional
contribution was made possible for this project.
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Ours
was perhaps the first non-classical music project to be supported.
Until now, as individuals we were able to benefit from contributions
for "classical" projects parallel to Croma, but we could never
hope to interest the institutions in our communal project. For
once, a crumb of the approx. 7.000 billion per year which comes
from Rome to the province of Bolzano, has been well spent.
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How did you get to your first
album?
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To be minimally well-known in Italy and abroad, to make contacts;
to have the possibility to play on the circuit: to spread our
music further. The distribution is, however, tiring but the price
of 25.000 lire should be an incentive to the buyer.
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-
Discromatopsia
is a dysfunction of the visual apparatus, why, in applying this to
music, have you used a visual rather than acoustic metaphor?
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The title of the album mimics the name of the group: Croma, above
all, is a name which sounds Italian (and this is important for
the Japanese market!!!), then it represents a certain type of
note (there are quavers, semiquavers etc.) therefore the metaphor
returns to a purely musical environment, and in the end it reminds
one of colours. Both me and Emanuele are slightly colour blind.
I fail about 50% of the apposite eyesight tests with the circle
and the coloured ball, which should stand out in letters and numbers.
Discromatopsia is hence a pathology and it is our minimalist pathology.
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Even
the cover of the album shows this, created by the excellent Max
Mariz, above all, the inscriptions on the cover sleeve of the
CD are in the four-colour process but seem to be almost monochromatic.
We retain that the CD must be composed not only of the music contained
therein, but by the entire packet, including the libretto. It
is because of this that we paid especial attention to the graphics.
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Everyone contributes with ideas; there are some numbers which
have emerged sitting at a desk (with the Mac!) and ready to use,
and others which come from a riff of a few notes inside your head,
maybe united to a different concept in a different moment and
context. Writing down the music is more the prerogative of Emanuele
who makes sure these ideas are transposed into a score. Sometimes
existing lyrics are adapted to more functional music; other times
apposite music is created for the lyrics; or lyrics are written
for music which has already been prepared. There are multiple
ways of composing. Arrangements are often the most problematic
aspect especially as the formation of Croma often changes so the
instruments available often vary and whole sequences of melodies
are no longer feasible.
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Minimalism
can be defined as "the poetry of renunciation" and this becomes
very apparent when we have to autocensure ourselves and renounce
continual changes of direction to accomodate compositional patterns,
which would otherwise be easier but inconclusive, probably effective
but much less rigorous. To sum up with, it is easier to confuse
the ideas with continual changes, as many 'cross over' groups
do, rather than working with the same limited material with
the objective of maximising the whole. The minimalist compositional
process consists in maximising the material! Curious really,
don't you think?
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- The melodic
impact is very strong. What importance do you give to the melody?
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Effectively
the melody is of primary importance in our compositions. It is
functional and it would be difficult to do without it. The melodic
aspect is that which can differentiate the music of Croma from
the first serial minimalism and that which, maybe, characterises
it more as typically Western.
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- The
track Discromatopsia is one of those I like best, can you explain this
cross-roads of pathologies, "colori della malattia" and the words of
Esenin, one of the major poets of our times?
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The
track plays on many levels. Apart from the ones already mentioned:
to the meta-musical function and self-irony, to the universe of
dispersed colours both in our biographies and in the music we
produce, hence to the minimalist renunciation of colour or clowning
around, apart from all of this, the rest is nothing but a listing,
firstly, of collateral dramatic effects of a commonly diffused
medication, then, from colours, from names, sometimes absurd and
fascinating.
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In
the quote by Esenin, the retro atmosphere, which it created
with its appeal to "young people" particularly struck us; also
the reference to sanity and to complete music was an excellent
way to conceive of such a piece.
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- I
have seen that there are often references to mathematics or physics:
bisectors, space, time, centigrades, masses, atoms. Does this maybe
derive from the mathematical repetition on which minimalist music is
founded?
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Definitely:
minimalist music, rigorous, disciplined, repetitive, serial hence
mathematical hence scientific. And then the beauty hidden in the
treatise, the poetry of everyday science, and norms such as the
process of falling in love. All this fascinates us. Instructions,
schemes, medical prescriptions, catalogues, manuals and encyclopaedias,
just as everything can be condensed from knowledge, to synthesise
a form of cognisance. This means making out of poetry what may
appear to be furthest away and the strangest thing there is!
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On
the other hand, in the world of cinema, for example, science fiction
films are the ones which best manage to synthesise certain philosophical
instances. If you think of a work of art such as Blade Runner,
how much it manages to communicate with regard to the meaning
of life.
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- Let's speak for a moment
about the use of the voice in your pieces. On the one hand a recitative
voice that goes beyond the form of a song, on the other hand a soprano,
singing par excellence, which only vocalises or sings in the one piece
that you haven't written.
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Even
in the use of the voice the minimalist order is implemented. The
challenge is to make a track without sung lyrics but whispered,
recited, shouted. In this sense the track "Out of Control" becomes
particularly significant where the soprano and the oboe, playing
and singing in unison, almost fuse into a new instrument.
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- By
the way, how did you choose the cover track "pretty girls make graves"
by The Smiths, which you abbreviated to "p.g.m.g."? Did it lend itself
well to your rearrangement (which is absolutely spot on)? Was it one
of many you could have chosen or a passionate choice?
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The
Smiths are amongst our favourite groups, but 'Pretty Girls Make
Graves' is undoubtedly one of the less outstanding tracks of their
repertoire. To us it represented a kind of challenge: to make
something better than the original. This process also led to the
"minimalization" of the single and hence the reduction of the
refrain into a unique finale.
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The
arrangement increased the playing difficulty by creating a game
of cerebral traps. Even the soprano with its essentially monotone
vocals, finds this the most difficult number to sing.
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- The
only things that didn't convince me are the two pieces added at the
end of the album. Maybe because of the dated sound of the drums or maybe
because it does not seem to add "anything else" compared to the original
version. What do you think?
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With time, maybe the first remix with the electronic drums is
not so great. But we like the remix of "Cenotaphé a Newton". The
distortions on the string instruments and base are exciting: it
makes the track pulsate! In the remix Andrea Polato of the Zoe
played the drums mixing it with the drum machine.
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This
came out of the idea that our music could also be played in a
disco. These versions, however, are perhaps too violent and fast
to be danced to!
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- I
see you have also got yourselves onto a soundtrack.
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It is about the soundtrack for a short film Il Silenzio delle
Bambine, by the brilliant young director Katia Assuntini and the
well-admired Georg Zeller. The compositions for viola and piano
are by Emanuele.
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They
are not exactly minimalist, but I like them above all for their
distinctive dissonances on the piano which are quite typical for
the style of playing by Emanuele.
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- Are
you doing any concerts with Croma? Where can we listen to you?
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In
this moment not much is happening. There are eight of us spread
all around Italy, right down to Rome! However, we are planning
a few events in Austria, whereas it is always more difficult to
fix dates in Italy. Italy remains a country which is culturally
behind. Nyman's concerts in Spain always sold out whereas here
no one had even heard of him.
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On
the other hand, it would be sad to cut back the group for commercial
reasons as many groups do. Actually, it would be great to play
in a quartet consisting solely of string instruments.
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- Good,
to finish with, a bit of idle curiosity. What music are you listening
to at the moment?
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After
a long time in which I was forced to save, I started to buy some
CDs again a few months ago: I bought Sehnsucht by the Rammstein
and the last album of the Suicidal Tendencies whom I love. Unfortunately,
none of these is especially good as I had expected. So it is probably
more likely that you will find Mr. Bungle, Gorilla Biscuits or
the last hardcore production by local Bolzano musicians: literally,
fermenting right now.
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I
listen to the demo CD by Trobar Clus by Massa-Carrara continually:
fantastic! Then there is still the White Album by the Beatles
and Maximising the Audience and Jardin Clos by Mertens and, the
unique, inimitable, Meredith Monk.
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- Let's end here, thanks for
the time dedicated to me
by Massimiliano Michetti,
Desiderium 1999
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